Wes Streeting and Shabana Mahmood have responded after being caught on camera joking about prisoners being released from jail.
The exchange took place in the Downing Street garden following the first Cabinet meeting of Andy Burnham’s new government. Streeting, who has moved from health to defence under the new prime minister, was speaking to Mahmood and her replacement at the Ministry of Justice, Alex Norris.
“You know he’s the enemy now he’s at justice, Shabana?” Streeting could be heard saying. Mahmood, now home secretary after previously serving as justice secretary, replied: “No, he’s not.” Streeting added: “He wants to let them all out.” The group laughed, and Mahmood joked that Norris should remember “who’s boss.”
This appeared to be an informal conversation between colleagues rather than any public discussion of policy. Unfortunately for the ministers, a nearby microphone caught the whole thing, and footage soon spread online, with critics presenting it as evidence that senior Labour figures were treating early prisoner release as a laughing matter.
Streeting has since apologised for any offence caused. Mahmood issued her own statement insisting the exchange shouldn’t be mistaken for a lack of seriousness about the problems facing Britain’s prisons.
Ministers say it was a reference to an old Tory joke
Streeting said he’d been referring to a long-running joke about the tension between home secretaries, responsible for policing, and justice secretaries, who oversee prisons and sentencing. Former Conservative prime minister Theresa May has previously recalled teasing Ken Clarke when they held the two roles in David Cameron’s government, telling him: “I locked ’em up and he let ’em out.” Streeting said his comment to Norris was simply a modern version of the same joke.
“I hope everyone can see there was no ill intent behind this ribbing of the new Justice Secretary,” he wrote. “It was a reference to an old May/Clarke joke. But I appreciate these are very serious issues and am sorry for any offence inadvertently caused by this moment of levity.”
Mahmood gave a similar explanation. “I think everyone can see there was no ill intent behind this ribbing of the new Lord Chancellor,” she said, noting she had previously held the role herself and describing it as carrying “immense challenges” because of what she called “the vandalism inflicted on our justice system by the last Conservative government.” She added: “But I appreciate this is an extremely serious issue and do not want anyone to mistake this moment of levity for a lack of serious intent.”
Mahmood’s statement stopped short of actually using the word “sorry,” though it did acknowledge why the exchange had caused anger. Streeting’s apology was the more explicit of the two.
The timing could hardly have been worse
The joke emerged during renewed controversy over prisoners being released before completing their sentences. Labour introduced an emergency scheme in September 2024 allowing many people serving standard determinate sentences to leave prison after completing 40% of their term rather than 50%, brought in because prisons in England and Wales were approaching full capacity, with ministers warning the system risked reaching a point where police couldn’t make arrests because there was nowhere to hold people.
Certain categories were excluded, including many convicted of serious violent, sexual, domestic abuse and terrorism offences. Even so, the policy has remained deeply controversial, particularly where victims discover an offender may leave earlier than they’d expected. More than 38,000 people have reportedly been released under the emergency arrangements since September 2024.
The footage surfaced at around the same time it emerged that Albert Bowers and Jessie Cole, two of the men convicted over the death of PC Andrew Harper, could become eligible for earlier release. PC Harper was killed in August 2019 responding to the theft of a quad bike in Berkshire, his ankles caught in a towrope attached to the getaway vehicle as he was dragged for more than a mile. Bowers and Cole, teenagers at the time, were passengers in that vehicle and were convicted of manslaughter, sentenced to 13 years each. Their possible early release has been strongly opposed by PC Harper’s family.
There’s no suggestion Streeting or Mahmood were discussing that specific case when the exchange was recorded. The timing nevertheless made an already careless joke look considerably worse.
Mahmood was responsible for the original emergency measure
The clip drew particular attention because Mahmood was justice secretary when Labour introduced its emergency release programme, inheriting a prison system with almost no spare capacity after years of delayed prison construction and record overcrowding. The previous Conservative government had already used its own emergency measures to release some prisoners early; Labour argued its more extensive scheme became unavoidable because the whole criminal justice system risked grinding to a halt.
Mahmood defended the decision as the least damaging option available in an emergency she inherited rather than created. Critics argued releasing prisoners earlier simply transferred the consequences of government failure onto victims and the wider public, a position that became more politically charged after some people released under emergency arrangements were alleged to have committed further offences.
Labour has announced plans for additional prison places and sentencing reform, but new capacity takes years to build, leaving ministers dependent in the meantime on measures controlling how many people are actually held. That history is exactly why Mahmood’s laughter was always going to generate a strong reaction. She wasn’t a detached observer making a general joke about two Cabinet jobs. She was the minister who had to authorise a policy that caused genuine distress to victims.
Opposition politicians piled in
Reform UK’s Robert Jenrick said the footage showed Labour politicians laughing about the “real pain and suffering” caused by early releases. Kemi Badenoch and other Conservative figures also went after the ministers, accusing them of making light of public safety and victims’ experiences.
Some of that criticism comes with its own awkward baggage. The overcrowding crisis developed across 14 years of Conservative government, and by the time Labour took office in July 2024, ministers were being warned the prison estate was only weeks from running out of usable space. The Conservatives had also introduced their own early-release measures before the general election.
None of that excuses Streeting’s joke, but it does make attempts to pin the entire crisis on Labour alone difficult to sustain. Jenrick himself served in the last Conservative government, including as immigration minister, and separately acknowledged on Good Morning Britain that his former party had failed to build enough prisons, while emphasising he’d never personally served at the Ministry of Justice.
The political argument over who’s responsible will keep running. Victims are rather less likely to care which party created the problem first than whether the current government can keep dangerous offenders in custody and protect the public.
Was it really a joke about releasing dangerous prisoners?
Context matters here. Streeting wasn’t celebrating any particular offender’s release or laughing about someone becoming a victim of crime. He was making a familiar political joke about the institutional tension between the Home Office and the Ministry of Justice: home secretaries get judged on catching offenders and public safety, justice secretaries have to manage a prison estate with limited space while overseeing rehabilitation and release. The idea that one department locks people up while the other lets them out has circulated round Westminster for years.
Streeting’s explanation is plausible, and consistent with what’s actually in the footage. The problem is that ministers don’t get to choose how an overheard joke sounds once it’s out of its original context, especially on a subject that has caused genuine fear and distress for thousands of people. Families who’ve been warned an offender might be released early are unlikely to take much comfort from knowing the ministers were just recycling a line once used by Theresa May.
A careless start for Burnham’s new Cabinet
The whole thing is an unwanted distraction for Burnham only days into the job. The new prime minister has promised a different style of politics, focused on living standards and rebuilding public trust, and his first Cabinet meeting was meant to show the government had moved past the turmoil that ended Starmer’s leadership. Instead, attention shifted to two senior ministers laughing about one of the most sensitive policy failures the government inherited.
Streeting and Mahmood were clearly speaking informally and didn’t seem to realise they were being recorded. That makes the exchange understandable. It doesn’t make it wise. Streeting was right to acknowledge early release is too serious a subject for victims to watch ministers treat casually. Mahmood was right, too, to make clear the brief conversation didn’t reflect her actual approach to the justice system.
Neither statement changes what people actually saw. This wasn’t proof the Cabinet finds crime or victims funny. It was an ill-judged private joke made within range of a microphone at exactly the wrong political moment. For ministers barely settled into new jobs, it was a useful early reminder that the Downing Street garden isn’t nearly as private as it looks.
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