A week and a half before the Makerfield byelection on June 18, the BBC held a special debate panel featuring all the major candidates: Andy Burnham for Labour, Robert Kenyon for Reform, Michael Win-Stanley for the Conservatives, Sarah Wakefield for the Greens and Jake Costigan for the Liberal Democrats. It was, let’s say, an instructive evening. Kenyon arrived with what appeared to be a prepared “gotcha” question designed to take down Burnham. He could not, unfortunately, work out what it was asking. And that was before the sexism question, the Equality Act that hasn’t been drafted yet, and the query about women’s rights from the candidate who has described himself as a sexist.
The debate covered cost of living, immigration, antisocial behaviour, local issues and – in its most valuable contribution to political discourse – which Wigan delicacy the candidates would most recommend. Count Binface was also present.
The gotcha
Reform had clearly sent Kenyon in with a specific written question designed to catch Burnham out on asylum policy. The word is the question had been prepared for him. The execution was the issue.
After the immigration section of the debate, Kenyon announced he had a question for Andy. What followed was something to behold.
“Uh I sent something written not so long back about um was it making uh the illegal immigrants or asylum seekers uh giving them to local authorities to look after? Is that you know with regards housing? I just wanted to clear something up that I just wanted to ask the question.”
He had a written question. He could not read it. He could not remember it. He said “I just wanted to ask the question” without managing to ask it. Burnham’s face as he tried to work out what he was supposed to be responding to was, by all accounts, something to behold.
Burnham answered calmly anyway – pointing out that he had never proposed local authorities take control of asylum seeker housing, only that they should be properly notified and consulted by the Home Office, which they currently are not. “The Home Office just does what it wants.” It was, as these things go, a relatively easy ball to return.
The reaction on social media was swift. @andyjock83: “Jesus Christ. He’s like a car crash that never ends. Thick as mince.” @surfdoctor: “He barely understands his own question, let alone knows how to actually ask it. This is what happens when Farage thinks that any old unvetted underwhelming and under-educated bloke can become an MP.” Labour MP Luke Charters: “Another complete car crash. You can see why Reform rarely lets him anywhere near a microphone. Bad, even by their horrific standards.”
It had the feel of a question written by someone else, handed to a candidate who had not read it carefully enough beforehand. As we reported in our Kenyon MEN interview piece, this is the candidate who didn’t know what the Great Repeal Bill was when asked about it, prompting Reform’s press office to ring the journalist afterwards to explain the party’s own policy. The pattern is consistent.
The sexism question
As we reported in our Kenyon Question Time piece, Kenyon had already declined to apologise to Carol Vorderman on national television and been told “I’d rather have a career politician than a sexist plumber” by his own Question Time audience. The debate host went there again.
“It’s fair to say that you had a tricky start to this byelection campaign when a lot of your former old social media posts and things that you’d reposted and thumbsed up came up. You have declared yourself as a sexist. How are women on the doorstep reacting to that?”
Kenyon’s defence: the comment was “made on a rugby forum 15 years ago.” The host corrected him: that particular comment was not 15 years ago. Would he apologise?
“I think I’ve addressed this issue once before, but I’m just going to move on.”
He then claimed that women on the doorstep were telling him the coverage was “just trying to smear you.” As we reported in our Vorderman open letter piece, Carol Vorderman sent an open letter to more than 6,000 female voters in the constituency calling him a “little coward” and detailing a pattern of behaviour that went beyond a single joke. That Kenyon’s doorstep experience appears to differ from hers is one of the more remarkable claims of this campaign.
The Equality Act he hasn’t drafted
Kenyon, responding to a challenge on women’s rights and Reform’s pledge to scrap the Equality Act, insisted that “all the women’s protections are going to carry on” into the replacement Workplace Fairness Act. He was pressed. His answer:
“It’s not been drafted yet, so I can’t give you the accurate details, but it’s being worked on.”
The legislation Reform is pledging to enact on day one of a Reform government – the legislation that Suella Braverman has said would reverse abortion decriminalisation, that Richard Tice called women’s rights legislation “carnage,” that Peter Stefanovic documented in his billion-viewed breakdown as we reported in our Stefanovic Reform policies piece – has not been drafted. Kenyon could not give the accurate details because the details do not yet exist.
Burnham on the substance
Throughout, the contrast was between a candidate who had command of the policy and one who was reaching for notes he couldn’t quite read. Burnham’s cost of living pitch was grounded in what he has actually done: the Bee Network, the £2 single fare cap, the free bus pass for 16 to 18 year olds, the restoration of evening and early morning access on older people’s passes, and the plan to bring all Makerfield rail stations into the Bee Network by the end of the decade so that a daily cap applies to rail travel too.
On water, he cited United Utilities doubling its profits to £800 million while Makerfield’s flooding problems remain unresolved and bills went up 23%. “The shareholders never lose and the public never wins.” As we reported in our Burnham Newsnight piece, this argument – public control of essential services, using the Bee Network as the proof of concept – is the core of his pitch.
On antisocial behaviour in Ashton-in-Makerfield, Burnham made a specific new pledge: he would chair a group to develop an Ashton Youth Zone as a satellite of the Wigan Youth Zone, and would bring Operation Vulcan – Greater Manchester Police’s deep-dive community crime reduction programme – specifically to Ashton. He also credited Sir Steven Watson, whom he appointed as GMP chief constable, with doubling arrests and delivering the most improved police force in the country.
On two-child benefit, Kenyon supported the cap because “it’s rewarding people just having loads of kids.” Burnham said he remembered his mother receiving family allowance for every child and that “you never, in my view, punish children. It’s not their fault the circumstances in which they’re growing up.”
Kenyon on the issues
Kenyon’s national policy answers were Reform’s greatest hits: scrap VAT on energy bills, scrap net zero, drill the North Sea. He also offered a personal note on the cost of living that the debate’s producers had presumably not anticipated: “I probably been shopping at a certain German supermarket beginning with there all my life, you know, and I’m the one who goes shopping, so I know how much things cost.”
On immigration, he described Wigan as being used as “a bit of a dumping ground” for HMO accommodation, which he claims is among the highest concentrations in the northwest. He cited 72,000 illegal crossings since Labour took office. When pressed on Brexit and small boat crossings, he confirmed he had voted Leave – resolving an outstanding question from earlier in the campaign about whether he had actually voted for the policy he has been campaigning on.
On the Equality Act, as noted, it hasn’t been drafted yet.
As we reported in our Reform policies piece, 83% of the British public support ending fire and rehire, 78% support guaranteed hours contracts and 76% support day one sick pay – all protections the Great Repeal Act would remove. Kenyon could not explain what would replace the Equality Act because nobody has written the replacement.
Count Binface
Count Binface, standing for the Count Binface Party, delivered his manifesto. He would price cap Wigan kebabs at £2. He would rename HS2 “FFS1.” He would rephase the traffic lights on Liverpool Road to ease congestion. He would ensure elected mayors are ineligible for Parliament until they have served their term of office – a pointed reference to Burnham that got a bigger laugh than Kenyon’s gotcha.
The debate host noted that Binface, alphabetically, would be standing between Count Binface and Burnham at the count on the night. “We’re all wanting to see him take his bin head off.”
The Wigan delicacy
The debate’s most forensically contested question: what is the best Wigan delicacy?
Jake Costigan (Lib Dem): a chunky steak pie from Galloway’s, eaten on the train to school in Hindley.
Sarah Wakefield (Green): an Uncle Joe’s mint ball. “They come in a beautiful little red package with Uncle Joe’s face on it. They’re a perfect sweetness with the tanginess of the mint. A hard boiled sweet, very traditional. They will keep you going through a hard day of door knocking.”
Andy Burnham (Labour): “A baby’s head.” Blank looks. “A steak pudding.” He has lived here for 25 years.
Robert Kenyon (Reform): a chunky steak on a brown buttered barm, from Whittles, Galloway’s, Green’s Alties or Muffin Man.
Michael Win-Stanley (Conservative): a good old-fashioned meat and potato pie, rounded off with an Uncle Joe’s.
The host revealed the answer she had been hoping for – a smack bomb petty wet: fried potato in bread with the water from mushy peas poured over it. Kenyon, who has knocked on thousands of doors across Makerfield, didn’t offer this. Burnham looked like he knew what it was.
Where it stands
Polling day is June 18. As we reported in our Makerfield odds piece, Burnham is 10 points ahead in the latest Survation poll at 49% to Reform’s 39%, with Restore Britain on 8%. Reform’s odds have drifted from 5/2 to 4/1 following Kenyon’s Question Time appearance. This debate will not have helped them recover ground.
The gotcha was supposed to change something. It was written by someone who understood the issue. It was delivered by someone who didn’t. As @surfdoctor put it: “He barely understands his own question, let alone knows how to actually ask it.”
You can watch the full debate below:
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